Curse

EinherjarMx · Mar 20, 2008, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chushingura

Remove:
Region Favor system. It kept the noobs out of FoW/UW (mostly) and the GOOD players prospered.

that made me lol

gil0 · Mar 20, 2008, 06:25 PM // 18:25

remove:
-hero requirment for missions
-districts in small outposts
-henchies
-title based skills
-+3 runes that are cheaper as the +1`s
-armours that are always costumised

keep
-heros
-prophecies/nightfall
-PvE !!
-HM

add
-armour drops
-higher prices for armour
-make armour trade able
-much lower drop rate for maxed items so the pirce doesn`t depands for 80% on the skin.
-one large market where people from all campains can come.

Sirius-NZ · Mar 20, 2008, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

The truth is simple, that PvE is over time far more interesting, than PvP, which stood over the years now nearly the same, without offering the players the 2 most funny/interesting Versions of PvP. And why? Because it provides simple far more long term motivation, than PvP.

I won't quote the rest of the post dealing with your reasons, since I'm mainly responding to this point...

But it becomes quite obvious from this post that you don't understand the point of PvP. PvP players do not play to max out their characters like you do. They play for the challenge of competition and getting better at the game.

For this reason, it's actually the other way around; PvP is the only thing that is remotely satisfying in the long term, because in PvE you can either grind titles to death and wind up with absolutely nothing to do when you're done (unless you like replaying areas you've already beaten for, um, something?) - or you realise earlier on that titles are nothing more than a time sink that gives you nothing much in return and stop playing.

The thing that keeps PvP players going is that you can never really get perfect, and you can also never wind up in a situation where "oh this is easy, all you need to do is x -> y -> z -> victory". You're facing the skills of other real people who can always shake things up and give you something new to try to beat. Winning is actually something some people can be proud of ... and it can create a name for the team in question as well - some people like that too.

They're not doing it simply to max out title tracks. PvP is about the player, not the character.

The Hand Of Death · Mar 20, 2008, 11:22 PM // 23:22

remove titles

Eldin · Mar 20, 2008, 11:52 PM // 23:52

I'd like the old favor system back.

Sure Europe owned us all the time after IWAY was nerfed, BUT...

1) Not having favor that often makes FoW/UW a more special treat - people won't take it forgranted and more planning will be put into it.

2) Less FoW/UW will result in higher ecto prices (good if you're a seller and not a buyer, but in general too, the ecto and shard prices are broken now).

3) Some actual reason to do HoH again. In the old days, HoH was tops - lots of state of the game and PvP discussions revolving SOLELY on America and Europe's ways to beat each other. It was a big source of PvP build variety and whatnot, and it was always changing. Nowadays the HoH is basically a chain of arenas that random guilds play in so they can get miniature Ghostly Heroes.

Feathermoore Rep · Mar 21, 2008, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Hmmm...lets see

Remove:
-Paragons, Ritualists, Assassins, and Dervishes. Paragons should just be moved to the never open again folder. The other three need to be put into the Re-evaluate/Balance folder. (They may get lost however.. *whistles*) But seriously they need to be looked over and changed.
-Dungeons that I have to walk to. Seriously i hate fighting/running through a whole zone just to get to where i want to start playing.
-Hero limit of 3 in pve. We have like 30 heros please let us use them all.
-HM/bosses - It was a good idea and its fun, but i really dislike instapwn monsters. I want to think and be challenged by a game, not run in and not know wtf hit me.
-Lootscaling - I like my farming and I like my money more.

Keep:
Everything else for the most part.
As much as i have a love/hate for grinding, titles and vanity items stay because its all thats really left to show that I've been playing for a long time, I look badass, I know what I'm doing. Granted some people will ebay it to get around the grind, but for some of us, we get satisfaction out of finally saving enough to buy FOW or getting that title and being able to show it off. Sure you may call it Epeen, but not everyone flaunts their vanity just for Epeen.

If we go into changes thats a whoel different story. But for now those would make me happy.

EDIT - Because I completely forgot about this while writing.

Pheonix Tears - the thread is about changing GuildWars to your liking. Not build your own guildwars. And based of your changes, you won't have GuildWars anymore. It'll be like some bastard child of GuildWars and WoW and Zu Online or something. But still if you want to discuss all the changes you'd make for GW2 and how to make it better, start a thread to tell everyone your 2gp.

Captain Miken · Mar 21, 2008, 01:04 AM // 01:04

remove everything added after factions

add jumping

Mr. Undisclosed · Mar 21, 2008, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Seriously, add or take away whatever you want but if you take away map travel I quit.

wu is me · Mar 21, 2008, 02:57 AM // 02:57

in a question of give/take, i'd say get rid of normal mode ai, and make HardMode AI universal

Buzzer · Mar 22, 2008, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

You just say this, because you sure are one of those lazy gamers, which wants to have everything as quick as possible, someone who has not the time for longer lasting interesting character developments - a person who wants to create a character, that transforms from a Nobody into a Super Hero after creation within 1 second -.- if possible.

Someone, who dislikes all kinds of possible long term motivations for a game and general plays also not anyhow RP and is mainly focused on playing PVP...

Am I right ? if so, then GW2 will become absolutely nothing for you i fear

Nice guess...

I play much more PvE than PvP.

Ok now lets go through some of your points.

Quote:

Remove: Bond of balancing between PvE and PvP sharing the same Skill Effects, this is absolutely idiotic and the one who thought out this retarded concept is the dumbest Noob Developer on the World

So which games have skills with two sets of variables? That solution would be very unwieldy. It's better as it is. PvEers have to learn that skills must change for the sake of PvP because monsters have static bars.

Quote:

Remove: Level Cap of 20 (100 is a good decision, as long the requirements to reach this level are not as retarded, as that it will take ages to reach it... max 1 month of normal playing by say 2-3hours/day) but absolutely not more...
When it goes to the point, that players get forced to play hardcore and to grind dailx for the half day just to have a chance to reach lvl 100 in humanous time, then won't make anet many friends in GW2 for sure, because then will GW2 nothign else, than a hated asia grinder.

Why? Why do you want grind? Level 100 is the same as level 20 but it just takes longer. What is the point of levels anyway? These arbitrary ranks are so ingrained in RPGs and I don't even know why.

Quote:

Remove: PvP only awards or any content, that forces pve players to play high end pvp and vice versa...just again retarded idiotic shit of a Noob Developer, who is in the believe.. pve and pvp can be merged. ya sure not with gameplay only awards/content you FOOL !!!!

Where are you forced to play high-end PvP?

Quote:

Remove: idiotic limitations to professions, like necromancer MM's beign able to summon only maximum 10 Minions

Quoted for amusement

Quote:

Maybe if it was a pay to play game.

Quote:

Want: Potions to have in GW2 never again suhc a hype about Healing Professions, alos when GW2 will become more about Solo gameplay also, as stated, potions are a viable way to make this so and potions are also a good gold sink and lower the massive advantage of gold gainage over those, that don't play solo, without such stupid shit, like lootscaling ....

So rich players win? Might as well add some high-end armour with better stats while you're at it.

That's a start.

Xx_Sorin_xX · Mar 22, 2008, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

I BET GW2 PvE will have all this crap except 100x worse...regardless of the community's dislike for it.

tbh its mostly guru that i've ever seen whine about a lot of this stuff..but perhaps i just don't talk to enough people.

Zahr Dalsk · Mar 22, 2008, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chushingura

Region Favor system. It kept the noobs out of FoW/UW (mostly) and the GOOD players prospered.

Nice bit of racism there. Region Favour basically meant that if you weren't European and worked normal hours, you would barely ever see favour.

draxynnic · Mar 22, 2008, 05:44 AM // 05:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius-NZ

I won't quote the rest of the post dealing with your reasons, since I'm mainly responding to this point...

But it becomes quite obvious from this post that you don't understand the point of PvP. PvP players do not play to max out their characters like you do. They play for the challenge of competition and getting better at the game.

For this reason, it's actually the other way around; PvP is the only thing that is remotely satisfying in the long term, because in PvE you can either grind titles to death and wind up with absolutely nothing to do when you're done (unless you like replaying areas you've already beaten for, um, something?) - or you realise earlier on that titles are nothing more than a time sink that gives you nothing much in return and stop playing.

The thing that keeps PvP players going is that you can never really get perfect, and you can also never wind up in a situation where "oh this is easy, all you need to do is x -> y -> z -> victory". You're facing the skills of other real people who can always shake things up and give you something new to try to beat. Winning is actually something some people can be proud of ... and it can create a name for the team in question as well - some people like that too.

They're not doing it simply to max out title tracks. PvP is about the player, not the character.

Furthermore, even in PvE, some people don't need the carrot-onna-stick 'incentive' of higher mechanical numbers. I get more satisfaction out of beating an area that was hard the first time using the same numbers than I do out of simply being able to walk over it because my numbers are better.

On the original topic:

Keep:
Lvl 20 cap
Changable 2nd proff
Easily changable skillbars
Instanced areas (possibly with the option to go into a persistent area instead, like the Normal/Hard mode toggle now.)
Assigned drops
Good stats cheap, only vanity costs dearly

(Stolen from a post on the 2nd page, because it basically contained everything that I thought really made Guild Wars Guild Wars.)

Remove:
Mechanical benefit from titles
Skills linked to titles

Possibly Add:
PvE skills linked to normal attributes rather than titles.

Zahr Dalsk · Mar 22, 2008, 05:47 AM // 05:47

Keep:
Guild Wars

Remove:
ArenaNet

Add:
Blizzard

Phoenix Tears · Mar 22, 2008, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzzer

Nice guess...

I play much more PvE than PvP.

Ok now lets go through some of your points.

People, which really like to play RP and have played different traditional RPG's, be it offline or online, will have no personal problems with it, if the character development of the game will take longer, than just lesser than 1 silly day -.-
Real PvE'ers would never whine so much about a higher level Cap, they would see the funny things in this, other to fear 24/7 only about this change, that GW2 will turn into an Asia Grinder.
Longer Character Development just makes more fun, when you can see over longer time, how your character becomes more and more stronger, other as when you create a new Character and after boring silly 10 Hours or so your Character is Max Level and has then absolutely no more ways to become strogner, but is in the End still only a Nobody, as 10 Hours before...

Higher Max Level enables Anet also to give the game much better Character Development Systems, other this boring 2 Class System for lazy People. The 2 Class System can be with Higher Max level improved, what it could not be, with a Lvl Cap of only 20 without giving the game a boring Reincarnation System.

Quote:

So which games have skills with two sets of variables? That solution would be very unwieldy. It's better as it is. PvEers have to learn that skills must change for the sake of PvP because monsters have static bars.

We have nothing to learn, the only thing that here anyone has to learn is anet, that PvE and PvP are NOT fusionable. You see it with every Skill balance Update !! Whenever Anet makes one, they make 1 side happy and the other side gets the kick into the face -.- Thats not the good way to make a whole community happy, when one side must ever suffer for the happiness of the other >.> I hope really, that the Skill System of GW2 will bring a solution of this, because Anet stated, that Skills in GW2 will work differently, than in GW1. Hopefully that Skills in PvE wll have their own effects and get not affected through skill balancings of the PvP Effect.
Giving skills 2 different effects is not a big problem, it requires only more programming work to split the skill effects between both gameplay modes, but it is nothing, that will be impossible to do, it IS doable and GW2 will become really unique, if they do this.

Quote:

Why? Why do you want grind? Level 100 is the same as level 20 but it just takes longer. What is the point of levels anyway? These arbitrary ranks are so ingrained in RPGs and I don't even know why.

Because it makes more fun, when you have somethign to do with your character over longer time, than just much lesser than 1 ****ing day!!!
When I reach a character with max level, that really changed from a nobody into a powerful hero through my effort, than I can be proud of my character in a personal kind of wise, but that you can't be ,when you can max a character in 10+ hours after creation, thats just laughable. and as long the high cap doesnÄt result the game to turn into an asia grinder, everythign will be fine.
Its a bit the mentality of a simulation, that makes so much fun to train a character over longer time and watching, how your charsacter becomes step by step better and also changes visually from a Nobody to a strong Hero with charisma. From charisma you can absolutely not speak, when you shit out max characters in 10 hours, like a egg laying chicken...
And what is for you personally "grind" does not mean, that it will be for everyone automatically grind ... but thats an other discussion >.>

Quote:

Where are you forced to play high-end PvP?

2 Words: Hero Emotes

When you want to have them with your PvE-Character, you are automaticaly forced to play High End Pvp, because the only stupid f..u..c..k..ing way to receive fame in this way is by playing PvP.
The Thing is, if anet would want to make this whole problem fair, they could easily implement for PvE'ers also alternative ways to receive fame through playing PvE... the god damn title is called still in the end "HERO" and PvE-Characters will be HEROES by playing through the campaigns, we save still in the end 3x the world, we beat a f..u..c..k..ing GOD!!! When this is really not worthy to receive some damn fame points, then sorry - then must be Anet really stupid.

Other than beating the campaigns, anet could create also some epic hard quests for Hard Mode or so, that give as reward fame points and are replayable like the luxon/kurzick reputation quests ... but on those simple ideas does NOT Anet come on from themself ...
Really, if Anet would care for such unfair idiotic things, they would finally change something to give the game a solution for those unfair forcements.

Sure, the emotes were there, before the implemention of titles, but THIS changes NOTHING on the fact, that PvE'ers get forced to play high end PvP, when you want to have the emotes for your PvE Characters.

Quote:

Maybe if it was a pay to play game.

Sure not, many of my suggested things can be done, without monthly fees, because they absolutely don't require anet to get more workers ect. which should work permanently for anet, persons which should act liek GM's or so.
None of my suggestions had to do with somethign like this.

Giving the game more alternative options for travelign will surely not lead into monthly fees, giving the game potions and other consumeable traditional items for the solo gameplay part that GW2 WILL receive, won't make out of GW also sure not a game with monthly fees. Your arguement is total rubbish imo!!!

Quote:

So rich players win? Might as well add some high-end armour with better stats while you're at it.

Total nonsense!! I've absolutely not suggested, that GW2 should turn into a gameplay, that advantages rich players over poor ones, nor that something should be changed around the armor system, just only, that Armors should also drop from monsters, like weapons, because it makes absolutely no sense, why they should not drop from monsters ?
Let them drop from monsters and players have to refine them first then, when you want to use them for a little fee of say 10g, like you customize weapons.
Until you customize not the dropped armor, it will have only half the power of what it would have normally, once you customize it to you, it gets it full power, due to that fact ,that the armor got refined to your body scale ect.

This would be just 1 little improvement of the arnmor system, that was from the begin on the missing point, that would led armors to become dropable, because anet made armors from the begin on customized to characters, if we remove this auto customize, then can become armors also dropable items... and won't be just only trophies from foes, that can be only used to get materials out of them...

Quote:

That's a start.

Ya, whatever Anet will do, accept that GW2 will be the start of beign a game, that is based far more on traditional MMORPG's, but with the fact, that those traditions wil lget mixed with the good qualities of GW1, because it was ever PvE, which brought the huge amounts of Money into the money box offices of Anet and not PvP and thats the reason, as they have also stated in interviews, why GW2 will change more to a traditional MMORPG, to increase far more the PvE Community, what is in the end god, because so they will make simple MORE Money in the End, with that they can improve then over time also more the game and in general also too the PvP Side.

Firms have ever the same goal: Make as much money, as possible and that means also, that firms have sometimes to change concepts slightly to stay competive on the Game Market...

GW has had ever strong competitors on the marked, which don't sleep, they develop their games also further and further and that over the PvE-Line.
There are ever games to mention, like the typical ever mentioned 1st World of Warcraft, but there will be also soon strong competitors of the OWN house, like Aion Tower of Eterny (NCSoft), which will stay in the Way of Anet and then there are also games like LotRO or D&DO, and who knows if we will see someday maybe Line Age 3, but sure is, that we will see someday Diabolo 3 and anet has there simple to keep their eyes wide open, when they want to keep their "Money Makers" - us the PvE'ers !!!

Because, as said, other Developers DON'T sleep and will be ever happy, when they could make their games somehow so good, that peoples from other games like GW, will move to their own games.
The Future of GW2 will lie in PvE, not in PvP... PvP will be ever for GW and Anet only their unique part until now, but I doubt, that this will stay so very long. One day will surely come a new star on the MMO Market, which will provide a very similar PvP to GW and then we will really see, if Guild Wars and Anet would be able to stay competitive with this game over longer time.

Past has shown several times - when developers can't find somethign own unique, then they use simple gameplay systems of other successful games - copied and slightly changed, so that they will look "new".

Friar Khan · Mar 22, 2008, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Keep skill > time played. Remove non-cosmetic benefits of titles (when a group wants you to have a certain rank in a PvE title for you to play with them then that's a bad thing).

Remove titles, but keep track of the statistics. Currently Balth faction works this way; you know how much Balth faction you have but nobody else does unless you take a screenshot. It'd be nice to know you've explored XX% of Tyria or have consumed XX sweets, but the way people pursue them for bragging rights (myself included) is pretty silly and annoying. I'd much prefer for people to stop playing once they've run out of fun things to do in-game.

Remove/Decrease costs of acquiring skills. Ages ago, when I was a new player it was horrible when I couldn't PvP with my guild because I couldn't acquire the skills I needed (didn't have enough balth faction and I couldn't afford to pay Dakk). I would have loved to stop playing PvE at that point but I didn't because balthazar faction accrued to slowly back then.

Fix PvP. I still enjoy it, but it could be much better. And I get very tired of hearing PvPers cries of anguish.

Fix PvE. PvE is less broken than PvP, but it could still use some tweaking. I think the tweaks on the hero system promised for GW2 will do the trick.

As it is, the game is still good enough for me to enjoy it though. I think titles help Anet pay the bills to a small degree, so I'm not too mad at them, but I hope they do better with GW2.

Tyla · Mar 22, 2008, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears

2 Words: Hero Emotes

Heroes' Ascent IS NOT high-end.
Just go there and look at all the gimmicky shit being played.
Used to be high-end, not anymore.
By the way, 180 Fame is nothing...

Abedeus · Mar 22, 2008, 04:26 PM // 16:26

tyla - 180 for you is maybe nothing. For me it's... Well, not that much, but I'm 36 fame from r3 ;d. I mean, they nerf Watch Yourselves, and crap like IV + soul barbs still exists.

Btw, I want to keep everything except for pve-titles that make farmers better and ursan.

RiKio · Mar 22, 2008, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Remove: PvE skills and consumables

Add: Two different skillsets, one for PvE and one for PvP. Stop the crying PvErs about nerfs.

Phoenix Tears · Mar 22, 2008, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

Heroes' Ascent IS NOT high-end.
Just go there and look at all the gimmicky shit being played.
Used to be high-end, not anymore.
By the way, 180 Fame is nothing...

1. Its in the end still a form of PvP

2. You need first to have a Party, because you can't play HA with Heroes and Henchmen

3. When your not very good and known to HA, it will take some time to farm those 180 points, when you get ever only 1 Point per Win.

If you play it perfectly (ungodly good), you could reach it in 1 run with 13 consecutive Wins ... uhm, which PvP Noob Group in HA do you think will ever make such a godly run on the first try ?
When you reach the 180 points, wow, then you have the Deer, but for the better Emotes your are much much longer forced to play PvP...

The best PvP's which play this mode mainly, need even over 2 years and WE have STILL no single player, that has reached R15, only 1 that is short before it (around 90k+ points or so) and GW1 is soon 3 years old >.>
3 Years of High End hardcore pvp farming for PvE's .. no thanks, there needs to be changed something, so that PvE'ers get their own way to get Fame, without playing 3 Years of hardcore PvP Grind...

If a party would play HA ungodly good to get R15 most quickly done, gettign 1 consecutive win after another, it would still require insanely:

2497!!! concecutive wins in the HA to reach R15 with the current fame system. You can surely imagine, that this is IMPOSSIBLE ...

It requires a good party that has good ksilled players to keep the Hall of heroes for long consecutive win rows ... that you won't get so simple as PvP Noob ...
Those 180 Fame for the HoM monument seem not much, but the PvP'ers abuse the fact naturally, that we PvE'ers get forced to play Ha, when we want to have the Emote, by charging insane prices for fame farm services >.>

Do you ever have seen, what such people want to have for their Service ?

2 Platin+ perFame Point >.< so if you see for yourself no way of success for PvP, or you simple have no good party for HA, you must let farm others for you to get fame ... its not 2Platin per consecutive Win or so, but for every single point and thats just imo a ripoff from PvP'ers imo, because they know, that PvE'ers have NO OTHER CHOICE to get on fame, other than playing PvP ...

and 180 points are then so simple direct 360 Platin >.> now charge that up to 100k points = 200k Platin >.< if you have to farm all 100k points through help of others as PvE'er in a PvE-Guild, who doesn't want to leave the guild, just to change into a Pvp-Guild...